CPS Missions - What went wrong?

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CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by Conshade on Sat 6 Jan - 15:38

Greetings Astaroth.

As most of you know, Astaroth released their long-awaited CPS mission system, which includes a wide range of content, and hours of farming to get great rewards at the end. While this system seems to be what everybody was asking for, in terms of more content, things to farm etc... this wasn't the reality. A huge part of the server quit the following days of the CPS mission system, meaningless activity overall brackets (PvP and PvE). One of the guilds which suffered the most is the guild Godzilla. A guild purely of PvP players, who liked to push for rewards, grind 24/7 to be among the best. Now one could say that those weren't true players of Astaroth because they quit as soon as something they didn't like was implemented. But i will now try to explain what really went wrong with the CPS mission system, and how we can reflect on this subject for future improvements. I hope this can help to improve Astaroth, and get the server back on the right track.

First of the CPS mission was released the 17th of December. A huge content update compared to the previous months of releases on Astaroth. This resulted in the fact that the majority was expecting something epic and awesome, with hours of fun and great content. Both PvE and PvP players were excited to see what this future update possible could bring. Upon logging in everybody rushed to the vendors, to check the new system, groups started to form and people were on their way of grinding CPS levels. Quickly people realized that you could obtain some game-breaking spells, referring to Shadowstep for melee classes, windfury and flame tangoue. While the spells weren't tested in action yet, this was the first red alarm, of a completely ignorance of the PvP community. Adding additional spells to an already broken PvP environment, made a lot of PvP'ers consider if this really was the server for them to play on. As people started to farm CPS levels, they quickly realized that this content update was primarily focused on PvE. For instance being LvL 1-10, a player can obtain CPS mission XP from only 6 quests = 2520 XP (1 more if you take dragon stones into consideration). However PvE players, not only had the option to complete 11 quests = 4620 XP, but also to farm world bosses = 285 XP a kill and Cps boss 70 XP a kill. In the beginning battlegrounds also gave experience, but this was quickly removed. This ended up meaning that, if you wanted to farm CPS levels, to unlock spells and bags for PvP, you would have to farm world bosses non-stop, or atleast engage in the PvE quests that the CPS mission system rewards.

The issue wasn't that much that the CPS mission offered a limited amount of quests for PvP. But the fact that doing PvE gives you such a huge advantage when it comes to farming CPS levels. Currently, as a PVP player, you are forced into world boss groups, that farm world bosses 24/7. As you progress up the tiers, additional dungeons are offered to you, to advance your CPS leveling, however no new PvP content is available in contrast to do so. This leaves a huge gap between PvE and PvP players, as any PvP player quickly realizes that by doing what he loves, PvP, he will have to spend months upon months, to even get close to anything useful from the CPS mission system. This was the main reason, i know for a fact that Godzilla quit the server, a long with a lot of other happy PvP players, who used to love battlegrounds farming 24/7.

Secondly, the option to have alts on your account has been a concern to a lot of people. Currently, if you have alts, you either have to farm CPS mission XP on each individual alt, doing the quests maybe 2-3 or even 4 times a day, in order to get all your alts the required XP to eventually get to level 60. A lot of people on the server, have multiple characters, myself included (currently have 3 full donor chars, and a full pvp 2 hunters). If i ever wanted to reach level 60 on each character, i would have to dedicate all my time every day, to make sure i do the same boring quests on 4 chars, and do PvE in order to get it, although i can't stand repetitive PvE, and preferred PvP greatly. This made a lot of players feel bad, that they invested so much time in individual characters, only to see that they now forward only can focus on one character, because their time simply just doesn't cut the requirement to farm CPS levels so many hours a day on 4 different characters.

Thirdly, as a donator, I do understand that some items should not be available for donation, simply because there needs to be something that differentiates the dedicated players from the rest. But I think I speak for many when I say that, some of us donate to make sure we don't have to waste the little time we have to play, to do boring and repetitive content. It is therefore an option to take into consideration, that perhaps, some kind of donation could increase your experience gain, or event make you able to trade credits for experience.

While i do not come with a lot of solutions, i think the problems speak for themselves. To sum up everything, what we need is additional ways to get CPS experience from PvP, the option to share our experience across alts, or get increased experience on those alts. Lastly, there is a huge issue in the fact that CPS mission levels, are such a huge part of the server now, but players with limited time, don't have any options to donate their way to get to spend less time on farming. I am not suggesting that lvl 60 CPS mission should be available for purchase, but rather an experience increase of some sort. I hope that the staff can take some of my points into consideration, as we move forward on Astaroth.

Sincerly Conshade.

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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by molochjustice on Sat 6 Jan - 15:50

CPS system is good. lvl42 Moloch the time master
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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by HelloItsMe on Sat 6 Jan - 19:41

I agree with you at everything you said.

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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by Colonia on Sat 6 Jan - 19:48

+1 for everything, mostly for cps xp in battlegrounds.

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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by molochjustice on Sat 6 Jan - 20:50

so from BG :
marks = cps quest = cps exp
mark of honor / arena , shard = cps quest = cps ext

so what more you want lol instant 60? also add x gears drop there so you can get all in bg
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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by HelloItsMe on Sat 6 Jan - 21:47

Not everyone got time to farm world bosses 24/7 like you Moloch. 🤦
And yeah, getting Pvp gear is way slower than getting it from Pve, so don't mind me, but I ain't spending mark of honor or makr of arena on quests when I need it on gear. Cshh.

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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by Junik on Sat 6 Jan - 22:31

1) PvP players don't get enough attention on any custom server or retail. That's normal,wow has bigger potential as pve game,that's it. Yea Battle for azeroth expansion will be focused on pvp but that's 1 out of 7 expasions so yea.

2) With new cps system the server turned into nonstop hardcore farming server. Many of us have families,have to work etc. and can't spend so much time grinding world bosses and quests. That's the main problem for many players. Without new spells that as Conshade wrote are pvp breaking you have no chance againts people that grind cps missions all day. I wanna play,I wanna enjoy game but so far I'm forced to farm CPS missions and I don't wanna do that. What chances do I have then? Leave the server.

3) Quest rewards are really unbalanced. Why the hell quest where you need to give 50 dragonstones to quest giver gives same amount of experience as quest where you need to kill cps world boss where you need group???


Final decision - CPS missions are great idea but badly done. Players should be able to choose path as PvP or PvE player and as bonus do some CPS missions that should help them to reach his goal faster. Right now all players have to focus on CPS mission or they'll be useless and have no chance in PvE or PvP. Yea there's low population so people invite almost everybody to instance and doesn't choose players with specific spells but it will happen. As Conshade said new spells from spell master will totally break PvP. Players with high cps level with roflstomp players with low level no matter what kind of gear/skill they have. I know many players including myself that left server because of this new cps system. I still check forum sometimes and I try to join some important topics like this one.


Suggestions - Well it's hard to suggest some ideas. Trading coins for cps experiences? Well Idk sounds like P2W server to me. Repeatability could be solved by making many quests BUT enabling just few of them for day in different rotation. Every day = different rotation of quests. I don't get why cps xps were removed from BGs when you have cps xps from world bosses. The amount of experiences for BGs should be definitely lower than for WB because of respawn timers. I know BGs can be farmed,arenas aswell and it could be abused but PvP players must have some way of getting CPS exps aswell. Take a look at retail, they were forced to add a lot of content for causal players,every other game aswell but still has content for hardcore players. You have to do the same thing.


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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by Shiloo on Sat 6 Jan - 23:55

Hello,

First i would like to thank you all for giving your opinions.
As i see, many people agree with your topic Conshade because you are right on some points.

Difference between PVE and PVP : The CPS system creation asked us many time so that we didn't release pvp content before. Then, when it got release, 80% ways of farm were based on PVE. And as you said, XP when you did a battleground was removed. The only way to farm CPS by doing PVP are the BG lootbox shards or the mark of battleground. It only represent 15 quests. There is really a huge difference between a PVE player and a PVP player to farm the gear or the spells.
Well, when you talk about the fact that the content "is primilary focused on PVE", it's only just because it's hard to release PVP content that are not arenas or Battlegrounds. The thing i want to tell is that there are not as much possible content to develop about PVP than the possibilities to develop content in PVE. We're restricted by blizzard's basic game in 3.3.5. But it's the next update we're working on. We know that we have to improve the PVP content and we're doing all we can. By the way, most of suggestions are about Class balance and some pve contents. We're not enough to think all ways to do PVP. I will give my opinion : i'm not an experienced player of WOW so to me we can do pvp only by bg, arena, arena like the one for Gruul or maybe FFA.

About the spells : Obviously the new spells "game-breaking" spells would be important in PVP. Some spells have been tested but some even with tests are broken. But it's a reward for such a long time of farming. And it will once more create a difference between players who only do PVP and others who do PVP and PVE (with Shadowstep for example). But for this, we'll make our possible to balance theese spells, to make sure that they won't make people able to one shot. It's a risk that we take, let's see what happens.


About alts : For the players who would rather farm PVP than PVE it's such a pain to start from scratch because it's an alt on the same account of your main character. It's obviously not really intelligent from us as the levels take time to be farmed. I can't take decision on my own but i can give the opinion i gave to the other members of the Staff to improve this. To me we could add some steps : for example if you are level 40 on a character that is on the account "a", all the characters from the account "a" should be lvl 20 or something like this.
Level 10 : all characters level 5
Level 20 : all characters level 10
etc....
Dividing the level of the highest character on the account just reduce the time of farming but you still have to farm it.

About Donors : Obviously when you arrive on a server FUN, you think that donating will give the best gear and of course you would have fun by using it if you have few time to play. But the fact is that for a long time we didn't listen when donors told us they were bored. So adding gear that you can only get with farm and not by donating is to us a good idea.
It was before the update the case with bags. So of course we could create a way to get experience when you donate or something. However, creating a donation for exeperience isn't an issue it would make the server "Pay to win". But what about getting experience when you trade credits from the website by the NPC. It would maybe encourage people to vote or something like this and be a good point for donors : They would start with a good amount of XP.
Then, not about donors but it's the same problem, if you do not have much time to spend you will not spend it to farm "repetitive content" as you say. I don't have any ideas at the moment but we have to improve the system for people that don't have time. What about adding content for people who have few time mixed with pvp content ? It would be great.

Junik wrote:I don't get why cps xps were removed from BGs when you have cps xps from world bosses. The amount of experiences for BGs should be definitely lower than for WB because of respawn timers. I know BGs can be farmed,arenas aswell and it could be abused but PvP players must have some way of getting CPS exps aswell.
On this point, i agree with you. World boss gives XP, it's benefic to PVE players
To be equal, Battlegrounds should give XP and lower because of time, you're absolutly right.

I think i said all, thanks again for your opinion let's continue because it's with this that the Astaroth improve !

Shiloo, ASTA|STAFF
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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by molochjustice on Sun 7 Jan - 0:24

pvp players can do also quests for pve it doesnt take much time like 1-2h daily and exp from quest are still a lot bigger than all day farm WBs so who get it deserve it and lazy ppl can keep crying
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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by Conshade on Sun 7 Jan - 18:11

molochjustice wrote:pvp players can do also quests for pve it doesnt take much time like 1-2h daily and exp from quest are still a lot bigger than all day farm WBs so who get it deserve it and lazy ppl can keep crying

Moloch i understand your concern, considering you spend so many hours farming. But i don't mind having to grind CPS levels, if this is what the jury decideds is the best option, as long as theres an alternative from PvP players to do so, doing PvP. Currently battlegrounds have taken a big hit, because a lot of people just spam world bosses, and call free battleground wins, meaning that people just join in at the end of the battleground to get rewards... then don't que up again, and wait for 1 of their guildies to que again. I do not think it should be made a lot easier to farm CPS levels, for non donators, there just need to be an equal for PvP players. For example giving experience from BGs wins, equally to what a CPS world boss gives, would fix this issue overall.

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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by Colonia on Sun 7 Jan - 20:20

I don't really understand Molochs problem. If they add cps xp in bgs, he'll just continue to join bgs at the very end for the free lootbox AND cps xp.

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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by Poptart on Mon 8 Jan - 8:22

molochjustice wrote:so from BG :
marks = cps quest = cps exp
mark of honor / arena , shard = cps quest = cps ext

so what more you want lol instant 60? also add x gears drop there so you can get all in bg

The XP you gain from PVE is stupidly higher compared to what you get from PVP. An average bg is what? 15 minutes at least... theres no way to queue BG's and time them with the world boss respawns and it's not like anyones going to wait for your BG to finish so you can kill it.

I personally think we should get XP from battlegrounds (wins and smaller amount for losses). Us in Godzilla are here for the PVP, each to their own right? I myself and many others cannot farm for 12+ hours a day like Moloch does, And then fall so far behind that its game changing. Those that are sat 20 levels higher because they PVE gives a massive advantage Gear/spell wise. It will kill the population of the server even more than it did when they brought out the CPS update as said above. The only thing that really saved PVP a bit since the cps update was giving people free x6/x7 gear via the Facebook reward. anyhow I do hope this problem is sorted :(

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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by Jin on Mon 8 Jan - 9:20

Hello,

Just to let the conversation move on: we pretty much agree with all of you and we already decided a few days after the release to add cps xp in battlegrounds and xtreme tiers in addition to the cps system, with a daily limit of farm.

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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by Conshade on Mon 8 Jan - 12:21

Jin wrote:Hello,

Just to let the conversation move on: we pretty much agree with all of you and we already decided a few days after the release to add cps xp in battlegrounds and xtreme tiers in addition to the cps system, with a daily limit of farm.

This is great new Jin. I appreciate you guys not looking at this blindly. I am looking forward to seeing what improvements that will come in the future. I suggest everyone participate in the conversation, to make the CPS lvl system, the best it can be.

Sincerely Conshade.

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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by molochjustice on Fri 12 Jan - 19:01

let the afk bgs began all alts farm free cps :D
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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by Conshade on Fri 12 Jan - 19:57

molochjustice wrote:let the afk bgs began all alts farm free cps :D

I don't really understand this. I mean you could just implement IP checks for queing with alts in battlegrounds, so you can't que with multiple chars at once, like in Bronze. Also punishing alts with bans etc if you AFK in bgs multiple times, would be a way to make sure this doesn't happen. Once implemented, i will note down every single AFK guy i see in bgs, and report it, if this really is an issue. But i believe that theres ways around it from ever happening if coded right.

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Re: CPS Missions - What went wrong?

Post by Sickless on Fri 12 Jan - 22:48

It's difficult, and maybe nearly impossible to find a solution to AFK in battleground, check IP seem to be a good one, but we can't do that because some players use the same IP to play (brothers, family, etc...).

Another solution that we thought about is to add a report system in the battleground, you can report a player for AFK and if this player got enough report he is kicked from the battleground, but this is not a very good one since there might be some abuse.

We are still looking for the best solution to handle this issue but it is quite difficult. For now the best solution is to report on forum or with a ticket ingame an AFK player to the staff since it is forbidden and sanctioned.
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